diff --git a/gtsam.h b/gtsam.h
index f8e0af28e..1aee996dc 100644
--- a/gtsam.h
+++ b/gtsam.h
@@ -156,7 +156,7 @@ virtual class Value {
   size_t dim() const;
 };
 
-#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h>
 class LieScalar {
   // Standard constructors
   LieScalar();
@@ -185,7 +185,7 @@ class LieScalar {
   static Vector Logmap(const gtsam::LieScalar& p);
 };
 
-#include <gtsam/base/LieVector.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h>
 class LieVector {
   // Standard constructors
   LieVector();
@@ -217,7 +217,7 @@ class LieVector {
   void serialize() const;
 };
 
-#include <gtsam/base/LieMatrix.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieMatrix_Deprecated.h>
 class LieMatrix {
   // Standard constructors
   LieMatrix();
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieMatrix.cpp b/gtsam/base/LieMatrix.cpp
index 69054fc1c..cf5b57536 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/LieMatrix.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieMatrix.cpp
@@ -15,7 +15,7 @@
  * @author Richard Roberts and Alex Cunningham
  */
 
-#include <gtsam/base/LieMatrix.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieMatrix_Deprecated.h>
 
 namespace gtsam {
 
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieMatrix.h b/gtsam/base/LieMatrix.h
index 90b7207a2..e24f339e4 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/LieMatrix.h
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieMatrix.h
@@ -11,147 +11,16 @@
 
 /**
  * @file LieMatrix.h
- * @brief A wrapper around Matrix providing Lie compatibility
- * @author Richard Roberts and Alex Cunningham
+ * @brief External deprecation warning, see LieMatrix_Deprecated.h for details
+ * @author Paul Drews
  */
 
 #pragma once
 
-#include <cstdarg>
-
 #ifdef _MSC_VER
 #pragma message("LieMatrix.h is deprecated. Please use Eigen::Matrix instead.")
 #else
 #warning "LieMatrix.h is deprecated. Please use Eigen::Matrix instead."
 #endif
 
-#include <gtsam/base/VectorSpace.h>
-#include <boost/serialization/nvp.hpp>
-
-namespace gtsam {
-
-/**
- * @deprecated: LieMatrix, LieVector and LieMatrix are obsolete in GTSAM 4.0 as
- * we can directly add double, Vector, and Matrix into values now, because of
- * gtsam::traits.
- */
-struct LieMatrix : public Matrix {
-
-  /// @name Constructors
-  /// @{
-  enum { dimension = Eigen::Dynamic };
-
-  /** default constructor - only for serialize */
-  LieMatrix() {}
-
-  /** initialize from a normal matrix */
-  LieMatrix(const Matrix& v) : Matrix(v) {}
-
-  template <class M>
-  LieMatrix(const M& v) : Matrix(v) {}
-
-// Currently TMP constructor causes ICE on MSVS 2013
-#if (_MSC_VER < 1800)
-  /** initialize from a fixed size normal vector */
-  template<int M, int N>
-  LieMatrix(const Eigen::Matrix<double, M, N>& v) : Matrix(v) {}
-#endif
-
-  /** constructor with size and initial data, row order ! */
-  LieMatrix(size_t m, size_t n, const double* const data) :
-      Matrix(Eigen::Map<const Matrix>(data, m, n)) {}
-
-  /// @}
-  /// @name Testable interface
-  /// @{
-
-  /** print @param s optional string naming the object */
-  GTSAM_EXPORT void print(const std::string& name="") const;
-
-  /** equality up to tolerance */
-  inline bool equals(const LieMatrix& expected, double tol=1e-5) const {
-    return gtsam::equal_with_abs_tol(matrix(), expected.matrix(), tol);
-  }
-
-  /// @}
-  /// @name Standard Interface
-  /// @{
-
-  /** get the underlying matrix */
-  inline Matrix matrix() const {
-    return static_cast<Matrix>(*this);
-  }
-
-  /// @}
-
-  /// @name Group
-  /// @{
-  LieMatrix compose(const LieMatrix& q) { return (*this)+q;}
-  LieMatrix between(const LieMatrix& q) { return q-(*this);}
-  LieMatrix inverse() { return -(*this);}
-  /// @}
-
-  /// @name Manifold
-  /// @{
-  Vector localCoordinates(const LieMatrix& q) { return between(q).vector();}
-  LieMatrix retract(const Vector& v) {return compose(LieMatrix(v));}
-  /// @}
-
-  /// @name Lie Group
-  /// @{
-  static Vector Logmap(const LieMatrix& p) {return p.vector();}
-  static LieMatrix Expmap(const Vector& v) { return LieMatrix(v);}
-  /// @}
-
-  /// @name VectorSpace requirements
-  /// @{
-
-  /** Returns dimensionality of the tangent space */
-  inline size_t dim() const { return size(); }
-
-  /** Convert to vector, is done row-wise - TODO why? */
-  inline Vector vector() const {
-    Vector result(size());
-    typedef Eigen::Matrix<double, Eigen::Dynamic, Eigen::Dynamic,
-        Eigen::RowMajor> RowMajor;
-    Eigen::Map<RowMajor>(&result(0), rows(), cols()) = *this;
-    return result;
-  }
-
-  /** identity - NOTE: no known size at compile time - so zero length */
-  inline static LieMatrix identity() {
-    throw std::runtime_error("LieMatrix::identity(): Don't use this function");
-    return LieMatrix();
-  }
-  /// @}
-
-private:
-
-  // Serialization function
-  friend class boost::serialization::access;
-  template<class Archive>
-  void serialize(Archive & ar, const unsigned int version) {
-    ar & boost::serialization::make_nvp("Matrix",
-       boost::serialization::base_object<Matrix>(*this));
-
-  }
-
-};
-
-
-template<>
-struct traits<LieMatrix> : public internal::VectorSpace<LieMatrix> {
-
-  // Override Retract, as the default version does not know how to initialize
-  static LieMatrix Retract(const LieMatrix& origin, const TangentVector& v,
-      ChartJacobian H1 = boost::none, ChartJacobian H2 = boost::none) {
-    if (H1) *H1 = Eye(origin);
-    if (H2) *H2 = Eye(origin);
-    typedef const Eigen::Matrix<double, Eigen::Dynamic, Eigen::Dynamic,
-        Eigen::RowMajor> RowMajor;
-    return origin + Eigen::Map<RowMajor>(&v(0), origin.rows(), origin.cols());
-  }
-
-};
-
-} // \namespace gtsam
+#include "gtsam/base/LieMatrix_Deprecated.h"
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieMatrix_Deprecated.h b/gtsam/base/LieMatrix_Deprecated.h
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..5dbe9935f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieMatrix_Deprecated.h
@@ -0,0 +1,151 @@
+/* ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+
+ * GTSAM Copyright 2010, Georgia Tech Research Corporation, 
+ * Atlanta, Georgia 30332-0415
+ * All Rights Reserved
+ * Authors: Frank Dellaert, et al. (see THANKS for the full author list)
+
+ * See LICENSE for the license information
+
+ * -------------------------------------------------------------------------- */
+
+/**
+ * @file LieMatrix.h
+ * @brief A wrapper around Matrix providing Lie compatibility
+ * @author Richard Roberts and Alex Cunningham
+ */
+
+#pragma once
+
+#include <cstdarg>
+
+#include <gtsam/base/VectorSpace.h>
+#include <boost/serialization/nvp.hpp>
+
+namespace gtsam {
+
+/**
+ * @deprecated: LieMatrix, LieVector and LieMatrix are obsolete in GTSAM 4.0 as
+ * we can directly add double, Vector, and Matrix into values now, because of
+ * gtsam::traits.
+ */
+struct LieMatrix : public Matrix {
+
+  /// @name Constructors
+  /// @{
+  enum { dimension = Eigen::Dynamic };
+
+  /** default constructor - only for serialize */
+  LieMatrix() {}
+
+  /** initialize from a normal matrix */
+  LieMatrix(const Matrix& v) : Matrix(v) {}
+
+  template <class M>
+  LieMatrix(const M& v) : Matrix(v) {}
+
+// Currently TMP constructor causes ICE on MSVS 2013
+#if (_MSC_VER < 1800)
+  /** initialize from a fixed size normal vector */
+  template<int M, int N>
+  LieMatrix(const Eigen::Matrix<double, M, N>& v) : Matrix(v) {}
+#endif
+
+  /** constructor with size and initial data, row order ! */
+  LieMatrix(size_t m, size_t n, const double* const data) :
+      Matrix(Eigen::Map<const Matrix>(data, m, n)) {}
+
+  /// @}
+  /// @name Testable interface
+  /// @{
+
+  /** print @param s optional string naming the object */
+  GTSAM_EXPORT void print(const std::string& name="") const;
+
+  /** equality up to tolerance */
+  inline bool equals(const LieMatrix& expected, double tol=1e-5) const {
+    return gtsam::equal_with_abs_tol(matrix(), expected.matrix(), tol);
+  }
+
+  /// @}
+  /// @name Standard Interface
+  /// @{
+
+  /** get the underlying matrix */
+  inline Matrix matrix() const {
+    return static_cast<Matrix>(*this);
+  }
+
+  /// @}
+
+  /// @name Group
+  /// @{
+  LieMatrix compose(const LieMatrix& q) { return (*this)+q;}
+  LieMatrix between(const LieMatrix& q) { return q-(*this);}
+  LieMatrix inverse() { return -(*this);}
+  /// @}
+
+  /// @name Manifold
+  /// @{
+  Vector localCoordinates(const LieMatrix& q) { return between(q).vector();}
+  LieMatrix retract(const Vector& v) {return compose(LieMatrix(v));}
+  /// @}
+
+  /// @name Lie Group
+  /// @{
+  static Vector Logmap(const LieMatrix& p) {return p.vector();}
+  static LieMatrix Expmap(const Vector& v) { return LieMatrix(v);}
+  /// @}
+
+  /// @name VectorSpace requirements
+  /// @{
+
+  /** Returns dimensionality of the tangent space */
+  inline size_t dim() const { return size(); }
+
+  /** Convert to vector, is done row-wise - TODO why? */
+  inline Vector vector() const {
+    Vector result(size());
+    typedef Eigen::Matrix<double, Eigen::Dynamic, Eigen::Dynamic,
+        Eigen::RowMajor> RowMajor;
+    Eigen::Map<RowMajor>(&result(0), rows(), cols()) = *this;
+    return result;
+  }
+
+  /** identity - NOTE: no known size at compile time - so zero length */
+  inline static LieMatrix identity() {
+    throw std::runtime_error("LieMatrix::identity(): Don't use this function");
+    return LieMatrix();
+  }
+  /// @}
+
+private:
+
+  // Serialization function
+  friend class boost::serialization::access;
+  template<class Archive>
+  void serialize(Archive & ar, const unsigned int version) {
+    ar & boost::serialization::make_nvp("Matrix",
+       boost::serialization::base_object<Matrix>(*this));
+
+  }
+
+};
+
+
+template<>
+struct traits<LieMatrix> : public internal::VectorSpace<LieMatrix> {
+
+  // Override Retract, as the default version does not know how to initialize
+  static LieMatrix Retract(const LieMatrix& origin, const TangentVector& v,
+      ChartJacobian H1 = boost::none, ChartJacobian H2 = boost::none) {
+    if (H1) *H1 = Eye(origin);
+    if (H2) *H2 = Eye(origin);
+    typedef const Eigen::Matrix<double, Eigen::Dynamic, Eigen::Dynamic,
+        Eigen::RowMajor> RowMajor;
+    return origin + Eigen::Map<RowMajor>(&v(0), origin.rows(), origin.cols());
+  }
+
+};
+
+} // \namespace gtsam
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieScalar.cpp b/gtsam/base/LieScalar.cpp
index 5f59c29bc..4c5a6a257 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/LieScalar.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieScalar.cpp
@@ -8,7 +8,7 @@
 
 
 
-#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h>
 
 namespace gtsam {
   void LieScalar::print(const std::string& name) const {
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieScalar.h b/gtsam/base/LieScalar.h
index 9f6c56b28..650e2bb21 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/LieScalar.h
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieScalar.h
@@ -11,7 +11,7 @@
 
 /**
  * @file LieScalar.h
- * @brief A wrapper around scalar providing Lie compatibility
+ * @brief External deprecation warning, see LieScalar_Deprecated.h for details
  * @author Kai Ni
  */
 
@@ -23,69 +23,4 @@
   #warning "LieScalar.h is deprecated. Please use double/float instead."
 #endif
 
-#include <gtsam/dllexport.h>
-#include <gtsam/base/VectorSpace.h>
-
-namespace gtsam {
-
-  /**
-   * @deprecated: LieScalar, LieVector and LieMatrix are obsolete in GTSAM 4.0 as
-   * we can directly add double, Vector, and Matrix into values now, because of
-   * gtsam::traits.
-   */
-  struct GTSAM_EXPORT LieScalar {
-
-    enum { dimension = 1 };
-
-    /** default constructor */
-    LieScalar() : d_(0.0) {}
-
-    /** wrap a double */
-    /*explicit*/ LieScalar(double d) : d_(d) {}
-
-    /** access the underlying value */
-    double value() const { return d_; }
-
-    /** Automatic conversion to underlying value */
-    operator double() const { return d_; }
-
-    /** convert vector */
-    Vector1 vector() const { Vector1 v; v<<d_; return v; }
-
-    /// @name Testable
-    /// @{
-    void print(const std::string& name="") const;
-    bool equals(const LieScalar& expected, double tol=1e-5) const {
-      return fabs(expected.d_ - d_) <= tol;
-    }
-    /// @}
-
-    /// @name Group
-    /// @{
-    static LieScalar identity() { return LieScalar(0);}
-    LieScalar compose(const LieScalar& q) { return (*this)+q;}
-    LieScalar between(const LieScalar& q) { return q-(*this);}
-    LieScalar inverse() { return -(*this);}
-    /// @}
-
-    /// @name Manifold
-    /// @{
-    size_t dim() const { return 1; }
-    Vector1 localCoordinates(const LieScalar& q) { return between(q).vector();}
-    LieScalar retract(const Vector1& v) {return compose(LieScalar(v[0]));}
-    /// @}
-
-    /// @name Lie Group
-    /// @{
-    static Vector1 Logmap(const LieScalar& p) { return p.vector();}
-    static LieScalar Expmap(const Vector1& v) { return LieScalar(v[0]);}
-    /// @}
-
-  private:
-      double d_;
-  };
-
-  template<>
-  struct traits<LieScalar> : public internal::ScalarTraits<LieScalar> {};
-
-} // \namespace gtsam
+#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h>
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h b/gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..6ffc76d37
--- /dev/null
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h
@@ -0,0 +1,85 @@
+/* ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+
+ * GTSAM Copyright 2010, Georgia Tech Research Corporation, 
+ * Atlanta, Georgia 30332-0415
+ * All Rights Reserved
+ * Authors: Frank Dellaert, et al. (see THANKS for the full author list)
+
+ * See LICENSE for the license information
+
+ * -------------------------------------------------------------------------- */
+
+/**
+ * @file LieScalar.h
+ * @brief A wrapper around scalar providing Lie compatibility
+ * @author Kai Ni
+ */
+
+#pragma once
+
+#include <gtsam/dllexport.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/VectorSpace.h>
+
+namespace gtsam {
+
+  /**
+   * @deprecated: LieScalar, LieVector and LieMatrix are obsolete in GTSAM 4.0 as
+   * we can directly add double, Vector, and Matrix into values now, because of
+   * gtsam::traits.
+   */
+  struct GTSAM_EXPORT LieScalar {
+
+    enum { dimension = 1 };
+
+    /** default constructor */
+    LieScalar() : d_(0.0) {}
+
+    /** wrap a double */
+    /*explicit*/ LieScalar(double d) : d_(d) {}
+
+    /** access the underlying value */
+    double value() const { return d_; }
+
+    /** Automatic conversion to underlying value */
+    operator double() const { return d_; }
+
+    /** convert vector */
+    Vector1 vector() const { Vector1 v; v<<d_; return v; }
+
+    /// @name Testable
+    /// @{
+    void print(const std::string& name="") const;
+    bool equals(const LieScalar& expected, double tol=1e-5) const {
+      return fabs(expected.d_ - d_) <= tol;
+    }
+    /// @}
+
+    /// @name Group
+    /// @{
+    static LieScalar identity() { return LieScalar(0);}
+    LieScalar compose(const LieScalar& q) { return (*this)+q;}
+    LieScalar between(const LieScalar& q) { return q-(*this);}
+    LieScalar inverse() { return -(*this);}
+    /// @}
+
+    /// @name Manifold
+    /// @{
+    size_t dim() const { return 1; }
+    Vector1 localCoordinates(const LieScalar& q) { return between(q).vector();}
+    LieScalar retract(const Vector1& v) {return compose(LieScalar(v[0]));}
+    /// @}
+
+    /// @name Lie Group
+    /// @{
+    static Vector1 Logmap(const LieScalar& p) { return p.vector();}
+    static LieScalar Expmap(const Vector1& v) { return LieScalar(v[0]);}
+    /// @}
+
+  private:
+      double d_;
+  };
+
+  template<>
+  struct traits<LieScalar> : public internal::ScalarTraits<LieScalar> {};
+
+} // \namespace gtsam
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieVector.cpp b/gtsam/base/LieVector.cpp
index 84afdabc8..3e4eeecf2 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/LieVector.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieVector.cpp
@@ -15,8 +15,8 @@
  * @author Alex Cunningham
  */
 
+#include <gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h>
 #include <cstdarg>
-#include <gtsam/base/LieVector.h>
 
 using namespace std;
 
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieVector.h b/gtsam/base/LieVector.h
index c2003df3c..813431775 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/LieVector.h
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieVector.h
@@ -11,8 +11,8 @@
 
 /**
  * @file LieVector.h
- * @brief A wrapper around vector providing Lie compatibility
- * @author Alex Cunningham
+ * @brief Deprecation warning for LieVector_Deprecated.h, see LieVector_Deprecated.h for details.
+ * @author Paul Drews
  */
 
 #pragma once
@@ -23,100 +23,4 @@
 #warning "LieVector.h is deprecated. Please use Eigen::Vector instead."
 #endif
 
-#include <gtsam/base/VectorSpace.h>
-
-namespace gtsam {
-
-/**
- * @deprecated: LieVector, LieVector and LieMatrix are obsolete in GTSAM 4.0 as
- * we can directly add double, Vector, and Matrix into values now, because of
- * gtsam::traits.
- */
-struct LieVector : public Vector {
-
-  enum { dimension = Eigen::Dynamic };
-
-  /** default constructor - should be unnecessary */
-  LieVector() {}
-
-  /** initialize from a normal vector */
-  LieVector(const Vector& v) : Vector(v) {}
-  
-  template <class V>
-  LieVector(const V& v) : Vector(v) {}
-
-// Currently TMP constructor causes ICE on MSVS 2013
-#if (_MSC_VER < 1800)
-  /** initialize from a fixed size normal vector */
-  template<int N>
-  LieVector(const Eigen::Matrix<double, N, 1>& v) : Vector(v) {}
-#endif
-
-  /** wrap a double */
-  LieVector(double d) : Vector((Vector(1) << d).finished()) {}
-
-  /** constructor with size and initial data, row order ! */
-  GTSAM_EXPORT LieVector(size_t m, const double* const data);
-
-  /// @name Testable
-  /// @{
-  GTSAM_EXPORT void print(const std::string& name="") const;
-  bool equals(const LieVector& expected, double tol=1e-5) const {
-    return gtsam::equal(vector(), expected.vector(), tol);
-  }
-  /// @}
-
-  /// @name Group
-  /// @{
-  LieVector compose(const LieVector& q) { return (*this)+q;}
-  LieVector between(const LieVector& q) { return q-(*this);}
-  LieVector inverse() { return -(*this);}
-  /// @}
-
-  /// @name Manifold
-  /// @{
-  Vector localCoordinates(const LieVector& q) { return between(q).vector();}
-  LieVector retract(const Vector& v) {return compose(LieVector(v));}
-  /// @}
-
-  /// @name Lie Group
-  /// @{
-  static Vector Logmap(const LieVector& p) {return p.vector();}
-  static LieVector Expmap(const Vector& v) { return LieVector(v);}
-  /// @}
-
-  /// @name VectorSpace requirements
-  /// @{
-
-  /** get the underlying vector */
-  Vector vector() const {
-    return static_cast<Vector>(*this);
-  }
-
-  /** Returns dimensionality of the tangent space */
-  size_t dim() const { return this->size(); }
-
-  /** identity - NOTE: no known size at compile time - so zero length */
-  static LieVector identity() {
-    throw std::runtime_error("LieVector::identity(): Don't use this function");
-    return LieVector();
-  }
-
-  /// @}
-
-private:
-
-  // Serialization function
-  friend class boost::serialization::access;
-  template<class Archive>
-  void serialize(Archive & ar, const unsigned int version) {
-    ar & boost::serialization::make_nvp("Vector",
-       boost::serialization::base_object<Vector>(*this));
-  }
-};
-
-
-template<>
-struct traits<LieVector> : public internal::VectorSpace<LieVector> {};
-
-} // \namespace gtsam
+#include <gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h>
diff --git a/gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h b/gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..3cb73319d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h
@@ -0,0 +1,116 @@
+/* ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+
+ * GTSAM Copyright 2010, Georgia Tech Research Corporation, 
+ * Atlanta, Georgia 30332-0415
+ * All Rights Reserved
+ * Authors: Frank Dellaert, et al. (see THANKS for the full author list)
+
+ * See LICENSE for the license information
+
+ * -------------------------------------------------------------------------- */
+
+/**
+ * @file LieVector.h
+ * @brief A wrapper around vector providing Lie compatibility
+ * @author Alex Cunningham
+ */
+
+#pragma once
+
+#include <gtsam/base/VectorSpace.h>
+
+namespace gtsam {
+
+/**
+ * @deprecated: LieVector, LieVector and LieMatrix are obsolete in GTSAM 4.0 as
+ * we can directly add double, Vector, and Matrix into values now, because of
+ * gtsam::traits.
+ */
+struct LieVector : public Vector {
+
+  enum { dimension = Eigen::Dynamic };
+
+  /** default constructor - should be unnecessary */
+  LieVector() {}
+
+  /** initialize from a normal vector */
+  LieVector(const Vector& v) : Vector(v) {}
+  
+  template <class V>
+  LieVector(const V& v) : Vector(v) {}
+
+// Currently TMP constructor causes ICE on MSVS 2013
+#if (_MSC_VER < 1800)
+  /** initialize from a fixed size normal vector */
+  template<int N>
+  LieVector(const Eigen::Matrix<double, N, 1>& v) : Vector(v) {}
+#endif
+
+  /** wrap a double */
+  LieVector(double d) : Vector((Vector(1) << d).finished()) {}
+
+  /** constructor with size and initial data, row order ! */
+  GTSAM_EXPORT LieVector(size_t m, const double* const data);
+
+  /// @name Testable
+  /// @{
+  GTSAM_EXPORT void print(const std::string& name="") const;
+  bool equals(const LieVector& expected, double tol=1e-5) const {
+    return gtsam::equal(vector(), expected.vector(), tol);
+  }
+  /// @}
+
+  /// @name Group
+  /// @{
+  LieVector compose(const LieVector& q) { return (*this)+q;}
+  LieVector between(const LieVector& q) { return q-(*this);}
+  LieVector inverse() { return -(*this);}
+  /// @}
+
+  /// @name Manifold
+  /// @{
+  Vector localCoordinates(const LieVector& q) { return between(q).vector();}
+  LieVector retract(const Vector& v) {return compose(LieVector(v));}
+  /// @}
+
+  /// @name Lie Group
+  /// @{
+  static Vector Logmap(const LieVector& p) {return p.vector();}
+  static LieVector Expmap(const Vector& v) { return LieVector(v);}
+  /// @}
+
+  /// @name VectorSpace requirements
+  /// @{
+
+  /** get the underlying vector */
+  Vector vector() const {
+    return static_cast<Vector>(*this);
+  }
+
+  /** Returns dimensionality of the tangent space */
+  size_t dim() const { return this->size(); }
+
+  /** identity - NOTE: no known size at compile time - so zero length */
+  static LieVector identity() {
+    throw std::runtime_error("LieVector::identity(): Don't use this function");
+    return LieVector();
+  }
+
+  /// @}
+
+private:
+
+  // Serialization function
+  friend class boost::serialization::access;
+  template<class Archive>
+  void serialize(Archive & ar, const unsigned int version) {
+    ar & boost::serialization::make_nvp("Vector",
+       boost::serialization::base_object<Vector>(*this));
+  }
+};
+
+
+template<>
+struct traits<LieVector> : public internal::VectorSpace<LieVector> {};
+
+} // \namespace gtsam
diff --git a/gtsam/base/tests/testLieMatrix.cpp b/gtsam/base/tests/testLieMatrix.cpp
index 7cc649e66..09caadabd 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/tests/testLieMatrix.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/base/tests/testLieMatrix.cpp
@@ -15,10 +15,10 @@
  */
 
 #include <CppUnitLite/TestHarness.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieMatrix_Deprecated.h>
 
 #include <gtsam/base/Testable.h>
 #include <gtsam/base/Manifold.h>
-#include <gtsam/base/LieMatrix.h>
 
 using namespace gtsam;
 
diff --git a/gtsam/base/tests/testLieScalar.cpp b/gtsam/base/tests/testLieScalar.cpp
index 060087c2a..141b55761 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/tests/testLieScalar.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/base/tests/testLieScalar.cpp
@@ -15,10 +15,10 @@
  */
 
 #include <CppUnitLite/TestHarness.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h>
 
 #include <gtsam/base/Testable.h>
 #include <gtsam/base/Manifold.h>
-#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar.h>
 
 using namespace gtsam;
 
diff --git a/gtsam/base/tests/testLieVector.cpp b/gtsam/base/tests/testLieVector.cpp
index 81e03c63c..ed3afac8c 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/tests/testLieVector.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/base/tests/testLieVector.cpp
@@ -15,10 +15,10 @@
  */
 
 #include <CppUnitLite/TestHarness.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h>
 
 #include <gtsam/base/Testable.h>
 #include <gtsam/base/Manifold.h>
-#include <gtsam/base/LieVector.h>
 
 using namespace gtsam;
 
diff --git a/gtsam/base/tests/testTestableAssertions.cpp b/gtsam/base/tests/testTestableAssertions.cpp
index d8c62b121..364834e2a 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/tests/testTestableAssertions.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/base/tests/testTestableAssertions.cpp
@@ -15,8 +15,8 @@
  */
 
 #include <CppUnitLite/TestHarness.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h>
 
-#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar.h>
 #include <gtsam/base/TestableAssertions.h>
 
 using namespace gtsam;
diff --git a/gtsam_unstable/gtsam_unstable.h b/gtsam_unstable/gtsam_unstable.h
index 95e635516..9aa32e1c3 100644
--- a/gtsam_unstable/gtsam_unstable.h
+++ b/gtsam_unstable/gtsam_unstable.h
@@ -477,7 +477,7 @@ virtual class DGroundConstraint : gtsam::NonlinearFactor {
   DGroundConstraint(size_t key, Vector constraint, const gtsam::noiseModel::Base* model);
 };
 
-#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h>
 
 #include <gtsam_unstable/dynamics/VelocityConstraint3.h>
 virtual class VelocityConstraint3 : gtsam::NonlinearFactor {
diff --git a/gtsam_unstable/slam/serialization.cpp b/gtsam_unstable/slam/serialization.cpp
index 31995e769..a598fb689 100644
--- a/gtsam_unstable/slam/serialization.cpp
+++ b/gtsam_unstable/slam/serialization.cpp
@@ -5,6 +5,8 @@
  * @author Alex Cunningham
  */
 
+#include <gtsam/base/LieMatrix_Deprecated.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h>
 #include <gtsam/slam/serialization.h>
 #include <gtsam/base/serialization.h>
 
@@ -22,9 +24,6 @@
 #include <gtsam/inference/Symbol.h>
 #include <gtsam/linear/GaussianISAM.h>
 #include <gtsam/linear/GaussianMultifrontalSolver.h>
-#include <gtsam/base/LieVector.h>
-#include <gtsam/base/LieMatrix.h>
-//#include <gtsam/geometry/StereoPoint2.h>
 #include <gtsam/geometry/Pose2.h>
 #include <gtsam/geometry/Pose3.h>
 #include <gtsam/geometry/Cal3DS2.h>
diff --git a/gtsam_unstable/slam/tests/testGaussMarkov1stOrderFactor.cpp b/gtsam_unstable/slam/tests/testGaussMarkov1stOrderFactor.cpp
index ff7307840..a86306a8d 100644
--- a/gtsam_unstable/slam/tests/testGaussMarkov1stOrderFactor.cpp
+++ b/gtsam_unstable/slam/tests/testGaussMarkov1stOrderFactor.cpp
@@ -20,9 +20,8 @@
 #include <gtsam/nonlinear/Values.h>
 #include <gtsam/inference/Key.h>
 #include <gtsam/base/numericalDerivative.h>
-#include <gtsam/base/LieVector.h>
-
 #include <CppUnitLite/TestHarness.h>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieVector_Deprecated.h>
 
 using namespace std;
 using namespace gtsam;
diff --git a/tests/testGaussianISAM2.cpp b/tests/testGaussianISAM2.cpp
index b43f0d3ef..4e14d49b3 100644
--- a/tests/testGaussianISAM2.cpp
+++ b/tests/testGaussianISAM2.cpp
@@ -23,10 +23,9 @@
 #include <gtsam/base/debug.h>
 #include <gtsam/base/TestableAssertions.h>
 #include <gtsam/base/treeTraversal-inst.h>
-#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar.h>
-
 #include <boost/foreach.hpp>
 #include <boost/assign/list_of.hpp>
+#include <gtsam/base/LieScalar_Deprecated.h>
 using namespace boost::assign;
 #include <boost/range/adaptor/map.hpp>
 namespace br { using namespace boost::adaptors; using namespace boost::range; }