diff --git a/gtsam/base/Lie.h b/gtsam/base/Lie.h
index ccd65c5ea..af8092c60 100644
--- a/gtsam/base/Lie.h
+++ b/gtsam/base/Lie.h
@@ -183,4 +183,25 @@ namespace gtsam {
 		return expm(xhat,K);
 	}
 
+	/**
+	 * function wrappers for full versions of expmap/logmap
+	 * these will default simple types to using the existing expmap/logmap,
+	 * but more complex ones can be specialized to use improved versions
+	 *
+	 * TODO: replace this approach with a naming scheme that doesn't call
+	 * non-expmap operations "expmap" - use same approach, but with "update"
+	 */
+
+  /** unary versions */
+	template<class T>
+	T ExpmapFull(const Vector& xi) { return T::Expmap(xi); }
+	template<class T>
+  Vector LogmapFull(const T& p) { return T::Logmap(p); }
+
+  /** binary versions */
+	template<class T>
+  T expmapFull(const T& t, const Vector& v) { return t.expmap(v); }
+	template<class T>
+  Vector logmapFull(const T& t, const T& p2) { return t.logmap(p2); }
+
 } // namespace gtsam
diff --git a/gtsam/geometry/Pose2.h b/gtsam/geometry/Pose2.h
index f594fb5ac..e68f43800 100644
--- a/gtsam/geometry/Pose2.h
+++ b/gtsam/geometry/Pose2.h
@@ -222,5 +222,23 @@ namespace gtsam {
   typedef std::pair<Point2,Point2> Point2Pair;
   boost::optional<Pose2> align(const std::vector<Point2Pair>& pairs);
 
+  /**
+   * Specializations for access to full expmap/logmap in templated functions
+   *
+   * NOTE: apparently, these *must* be indicated as inline to prevent compile error
+   */
+
+  /** unary versions */
+	template<>
+	inline Pose2 ExpmapFull<Pose2>(const Vector& xi) { return Pose2::ExpmapFull(xi); }
+	template<>
+	inline Vector LogmapFull<Pose2>(const Pose2& p) { return Pose2::LogmapFull(p); }
+
+  /** binary versions */
+	template<>
+  inline Pose2 expmapFull<Pose2>(const Pose2& t, const Vector& v) { return t.expmapFull(v); }
+	template<>
+	inline Vector logmapFull<Pose2>(const Pose2& t, const Pose2& p2) { return t.logmapFull(p2); }
+
 } // namespace gtsam
 
diff --git a/gtsam/geometry/Pose3.h b/gtsam/geometry/Pose3.h
index 637af42eb..56063d59a 100644
--- a/gtsam/geometry/Pose3.h
+++ b/gtsam/geometry/Pose3.h
@@ -195,4 +195,22 @@ namespace gtsam {
   	return Pose3::wedge(xi(0),xi(1),xi(2),xi(3),xi(4),xi(5));
   }
 
+  /**
+   * Specializations for access to full expmap/logmap in templated functions
+   *
+   * NOTE: apparently, these *must* be indicated as inline to prevent compile error
+   */
+
+  /** unary versions */
+	template<>
+	inline Pose3 ExpmapFull<Pose3>(const Vector& xi) { return Pose3::ExpmapFull(xi); }
+	template<>
+	inline Vector LogmapFull<Pose3>(const Pose3& p) { return Pose3::LogmapFull(p); }
+
+  /** binary versions */
+	template<>
+  inline Pose3 expmapFull<Pose3>(const Pose3& t, const Vector& v) { return t.expmapFull(v); }
+	template<>
+	inline Vector logmapFull<Pose3>(const Pose3& t, const Pose3& p2) { return t.logmapFull(p2); }
+
 } // namespace gtsam
diff --git a/gtsam/geometry/tests/testPose2.cpp b/gtsam/geometry/tests/testPose2.cpp
index ed3628343..9d283dd86 100644
--- a/gtsam/geometry/tests/testPose2.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/geometry/tests/testPose2.cpp
@@ -77,6 +77,14 @@ TEST(Pose2, expmap_full) {
   EXPECT(assert_equal(expected, actual, 1e-5));
 }
 
+/* ************************************************************************* */
+TEST(Pose2, expmap_full2) {
+  Pose2 pose(M_PI_2, Point2(1, 2));
+  Pose2 expected(1.00811, 2.01528, 2.5608);
+  Pose2 actual = expmapFull<Pose2>(pose, Vector_(3, 0.01, -0.015, 0.99));
+  EXPECT(assert_equal(expected, actual, 1e-5));
+}
+
 /* ************************************************************************* */
 TEST(Pose2, expmap2) {
   // do an actual series exponential map
@@ -113,6 +121,14 @@ TEST(Pose2, expmap0_full) {
   EXPECT(assert_equal(expected, actual, 1e-5));
 }
 
+/* ************************************************************************* */
+TEST(Pose2, expmap0_full2) {
+  Pose2 pose(M_PI_2, Point2(1, 2));
+  Pose2 expected(1.01491, 2.01013, 1.5888);
+  Pose2 actual = pose * ExpmapFull<Pose2>(Vector_(3, 0.01, -0.015, 0.018));
+  EXPECT(assert_equal(expected, actual, 1e-5));
+}
+
 #ifdef SLOW_BUT_CORRECT_EXPMAP
 /* ************************************************************************* */
 // test case for screw motion in the plane
diff --git a/gtsam/geometry/tests/testPose3.cpp b/gtsam/geometry/tests/testPose3.cpp
index 7ed84f25d..e4f36e797 100644
--- a/gtsam/geometry/tests/testPose3.cpp
+++ b/gtsam/geometry/tests/testPose3.cpp
@@ -63,11 +63,23 @@ TEST( Pose3, expmap_a_full)
   Vector v(6);
   fill(v.begin(), v.end(), 0);
   v(0) = 0.3;
-  CHECK(assert_equal(id.expmap(v), Pose3(R, Point3())));
+  CHECK(assert_equal(id.expmapFull(v), Pose3(R, Point3())));
   v(3)=0.2;v(4)=0.394742;v(5)=-2.08998;
   CHECK(assert_equal(Pose3(R, P),id.expmapFull(v),1e-5));
 }
 
+/* ************************************************************************* */
+TEST( Pose3, expmap_a_full2)
+{
+  Pose3 id;
+  Vector v(6);
+  fill(v.begin(), v.end(), 0);
+  v(0) = 0.3;
+  CHECK(assert_equal(expmapFull<Pose3>(id,v), Pose3(R, Point3())));
+  v(3)=0.2;v(4)=0.394742;v(5)=-2.08998;
+  CHECK(assert_equal(Pose3(R, P),expmapFull<Pose3>(id,v),1e-5));
+}
+
 /* ************************************************************************* */
 TEST(Pose3, expmap_b)
 {